I forgot and now desperately feel the need to add that there WAS a Bush-era version of this kind of parallel economy and subculture in the riot grrl scene, with differences that are kind of outside the scope of this little convo, but if there are fellow 90s riot grrl nerds PLEASE sound off to me about this comparison.
as a PNW dyke i am always thinking about riot grrrl. one of the things that's so interesting about that movement is that it was so localized in a small college town (a famously WEIRD college, i might add), which reminds me about what ya'll were talking about in regards to the infrastructure/culture necessary for these kinds of spaces/economies. and Kathleen Hanna starting off in the zine/poetry space makes a lot of sense too.
Yes totally! Riot grrl and lesbian feminism both used diy print mediums to bridge super local cultures/communities with national networks….seems like there’s an interesting comparative history there. Would be super fun to dig into
theres a really good story somewhere here about feminist separatism and riot grrrl scenes! theres interesting contrasts in the size and maybe most interestingly to me the median age of those in the scene. arguable riot grrrl never really got out of being a "scene" the way lesbian separatism was a "movement", but it's too convenient a history to just say it was a kind of small shockwave.
notable donna dresch of team dresch also started out with Musical Fanzine. I wish i had a strong enough understanding of womens publishing to really make a thread there...
Oh my god, this rocked! I feel like I could have read this convo for hours. Speaking of lesbian newsletters, have y'all heard of Dyke News? It's new and looks rad (I haven't gotten my hands on a copy yet).
1. would you like another dyke friend and 2. so much of this has come up in my book, talking about lgbtq+ spaces and how they've shifted and grown and changed and evolved. the book gay bar was really good on looking at gay men's spaces but I think there's room to discuss us too
oh! and i would love some kind of comparison btw the real l word and tampa baes in terms of setting and year difference. i am a deep lover of reality tv and wish there was more dyke shows!
this was so fun!! i just started reading moby dyke and enjoying it a lot so far. picking it up made me realize i've never actually been to a lesbian bar - tho diva's in northampton felt fairly lesbian due to the college crowd i was there with, RIP. i enjoy my rare night out to one of the two gay bars in my midsize southern city, but as a sober girly who generally goes to bed by 10pm it's not super often.
I forgot and now desperately feel the need to add that there WAS a Bush-era version of this kind of parallel economy and subculture in the riot grrl scene, with differences that are kind of outside the scope of this little convo, but if there are fellow 90s riot grrl nerds PLEASE sound off to me about this comparison.
as a PNW dyke i am always thinking about riot grrrl. one of the things that's so interesting about that movement is that it was so localized in a small college town (a famously WEIRD college, i might add), which reminds me about what ya'll were talking about in regards to the infrastructure/culture necessary for these kinds of spaces/economies. and Kathleen Hanna starting off in the zine/poetry space makes a lot of sense too.
Yes totally! Riot grrl and lesbian feminism both used diy print mediums to bridge super local cultures/communities with national networks….seems like there’s an interesting comparative history there. Would be super fun to dig into
theres a really good story somewhere here about feminist separatism and riot grrrl scenes! theres interesting contrasts in the size and maybe most interestingly to me the median age of those in the scene. arguable riot grrrl never really got out of being a "scene" the way lesbian separatism was a "movement", but it's too convenient a history to just say it was a kind of small shockwave.
notable donna dresch of team dresch also started out with Musical Fanzine. I wish i had a strong enough understanding of womens publishing to really make a thread there...
Oh my god, this rocked! I feel like I could have read this convo for hours. Speaking of lesbian newsletters, have y'all heard of Dyke News? It's new and looks rad (I haven't gotten my hands on a copy yet).
Thanks Emma!! That’s seriously the best compliment. I love what Dyke News is doing, and would really love to see more projects like that pop up!
Just wanna say, I would absoLUTELY read yours and Clover’s longform thoughts and conversation on The Real L Word💥
Hahaha ok noted! All I can say is be careful what you wish for lol
1. would you like another dyke friend and 2. so much of this has come up in my book, talking about lgbtq+ spaces and how they've shifted and grown and changed and evolved. the book gay bar was really good on looking at gay men's spaces but I think there's room to discuss us too
Haha always interested in another dyke friend! Yes, the spaces never stop changing, so interesting to dig into
oh! and i would love some kind of comparison btw the real l word and tampa baes in terms of setting and year difference. i am a deep lover of reality tv and wish there was more dyke shows!
this was so fun!! i just started reading moby dyke and enjoying it a lot so far. picking it up made me realize i've never actually been to a lesbian bar - tho diva's in northampton felt fairly lesbian due to the college crowd i was there with, RIP. i enjoy my rare night out to one of the two gay bars in my midsize southern city, but as a sober girly who generally goes to bed by 10pm it's not super often.